Platforming or Tokenizing? White Supremacy in Food Spaces
Jovida Ross in Conversation with Stefani Renée Medley
BY SHIZUE ROCHE ADACHI
Around The Table features informal conversations between Food Culture Collective community members with thought leaders, organizers, and friends in food about the juicy stories and critical conversations we’re chewing on.
This conversation happened in the summer of 2021, when Food Culture Collective was known as Real Food Real Stories. In the first post of the series, we’re excited to welcome 2021 RFRS Facilitator Cohort member, Stefani Renée Medley, in conversation with RFRS Executive Director, Jovida Ross.
Stefani Renée Medley inherited a love of cooking, throwing parties, telling stories, and creating from her Granny Octavia. By day, Stefani focuses on systems transformation and reducing racial disparities in the criminal, legal and education fields and the impact on youth. By night, Stefani can be found in her kitchen developing recipes, honing her photography skills, and interviewing tastemakers in the food community and beyond for her food and lifestyle blog Savor and Sage.
After participating in the Facilitating Stories for Impact Training, Stefani was accepted into this year’s volunteer Facilitator Cohort and beautifully facilitated Sarah Kirnon for our 2021 Storyslam (if you missed it, you can watch Sarah’s story here). Around this time, Stefani also connected with Jovida and Director of Communications, Shizue Roche Adachi, to start a conversation around what the organization was doing to invite more Black folks into RFRS and how we might better support and engage our Black community members.
Stefani agreed to let us share this conversation in the Journal as part of RFRS’ desire to work in public. So, on a Tuesday afternoon in early June, she and Jovida met up around the virtual table to talk tokenization, exclusivity and white supremacy in food spaces, and RFRS’s role and responsibility in shifting these dynamics.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity. Jovida’s comments are demarcated in bold.
Jovida: Knowing that we’re going to be turning this into a Journal post, can you help the readers orient to you, and your connection to the Real Food Real Stories community?
Stefani: For a few years I’ve been kicking around ideas of how I want to be involved in food spaces, which led me to creating my blog, Savor and Sage. And really it was because, not only did I want to be able to share food and my love for food and entertaining on the blog, but I also wanted to create a space where I was sharing peoples’ stories that I wasn’t seeing in the media.
As I was doing some research, I stumbled upon Pei-Ru and then stumbled upon Real Food Real Stories. And I was like, you know, this is really cool. I really thought that what you all were creating with the Gatherings was really interesting and meaningful. But, one of the things I did notice was that there weren’t a lot of—not just people of color—but Black people, specifically.
“But, one of the things I did notice was that there weren’t a lot of—not just people of color—but Black people, specifically [visible in the RFRS community].” - Stefani Renée Medley
One of the storytellers that was featured in Real Food Real Stories was Nafy Flately. I actually reached out to her to talk to her a little bit more just about her journey...because I wanted to feature her on my blog. Through talking with Nafy and really connecting with her, we started talking more about RFRS and also talking about how could there be more Black faces and Black voices in RFRS? She told me about the storyteller facilitator workshops and encouraged me to apply. So that’s kind of how I fell into this. (laughs)
I’m so glad that you have joined us. Noticing that there weren’t that many Black storytellers in this space––or in the spaces RFRS has created––what made you feel like it’s worth your time to bring that perspective here?
The mission and values of the organization I felt were aligned with me. And then at the same time, I was wondering, if I do decide to try to be involved with this, what [can] I see myself contributing to it? I kind of go into everything that I do in that way….I didn’t know if I was going to click with what was going on, but I figured that I would get a feel for it if I was accepted into the facilitators’ program.
Nafy Flatley of TERANAGA with RFRS founder and storyteller facilitator, Pei-Ru Ko, at a June 2019 Real Food Real Stories Gathering.
And so, obviously, I vibed with the program a little bit (laughs) and I was like, well I do want to see how I can be more involved in a deeper way. So that’s what led me to reach out and be like, “Hey, this is how I would like to help.” For sure, if I wasn’t vibing with the facilitators’ program, I wouldn’t have offered anything––and I probably wouldn’t have even stuck with the facilitator’s program if I didn’t feel any kind of connection to what was being taught.
One of the things that I appreciated was that there was a specific kind of call out/call in, however you want to phrase it, that white supremacy does exist––especially during the time that I went through the facilitator training [in the summer of 2020] with the uprisings happening and there being this spotlight on everything. I thought it was very important that you all had called that out, and it didn’t seem like folks were afraid to talk about it…
I think that if we were in person, we probably could have gotten even deeper into discussions. And I think that would be one thing that unfortunately couldn’t happen, just because of the time crunch…because, I mean, this oppression has been going along for so long, it’s not like you can dissect everything within 30 minutes. And so, (laughs) it’s like, how do you actually have some deeper conversations about it? That would probably be my only regret.
You mentioned that you were assessing if this is a space that you are going to be involved in, and if so, what you think you might have to offer. And you reached out to both me and Shizue. Can you say more about how you’re understanding that, within RFRS––what is it that you’re looking to contribute?
I think one of the ways I look at myself––I forget what leadership assessment thing I took, I’ve taken a couple different ones––but one of them was Connector, and I do feel I am a connector. I actually enjoy connecting people with other people...And so, thinking about the racial equity work that I do and thinking about how I would actually connect that to some of the work that you all are doing, [then] what would that bridge be?
“It's not just about food, it’s about all these different systems and how they’re connected.” - Stefani Renée Medley
All kinds of thoughts have come into my head about different things––because I believe everything is connected, right? It’s not just about food, it’s about all these different systems and how they’re connected. And so, how is there a connection to young people and food apartheid, and what that even looks like? How is there a connection to other parts of the Bay Area? I’m from Richmond, Richmond doesn’t get talked about a lot, and so what would it look like to actually bring that connection to RFRS? What does it look like––because I’m also doing criminal legal work––to talk about how incarcerated people are impacted by things in the food industry or lack of having nutritious [food]? So all these different little things started popping into my head about how to connect things.
I’ve also done that assessment and I’m also a Connector. (laughs). Thank you for drawing those lines. And, yeah, I just want to first appreciate you recognizing that values alignment and for proactively reaching out to us.
I would really love to hear more about where you see RFRS just on the spectrum of changing the atmosphere in the community and in this industry, and elevating Black voices in the [food] industry. Like, what does that even look like for you?
Thank you for that question. I think, honestly, it’s an open question that we’re exploring ourselves. We were just looking at the list of our previous storytellers and discovered that [while 60% self-identified as people of color], only 10% of our previous storytellers [from 2014-2021] were Black, which is a sobering number. So I think it’s something that the organization didn’t originally have an explicit commitment to.
In the last year, we’ve definitely been doing some internal reflection on what is the change we’re looking to contribute to, and who are our partners in that change? And, in that exploration, recognizing just how racism is baked into the way US food functions in so many ways––structurally and culturally––and specifically the history of plantations and chattel slavery. And recognizing that if we want to really transform food and food culture, we have to explicitly include race in that––both racial power dynamics and who gets attention and support and celebrated. And also think about reparations, and how do we heal the harm that’s been created over a couple of centuries in the US, specifically.
“if we want to really transform food and food culture that we have to explicitly include race in that – both racial power dynamics, and who gets attention and support” - Jovida Ross
In addition to working in the youth advocacy, education, and racial justice space, Stefani runs a food, lifestyle, and storytelling blog, Savor and Sage. Photo courtesy of Savor and Sage.
I think one of the things that’s crossed my mind, too, because––I don’t want to say it’s a tricky thing––but I think it’s important to be really intentional about how it’s done. Because I think even though there can be good intentions there can run a risk of tokenization. So how do you create spaces that aren’t tokenizing, but really looking at what equity and justice means in these spaces? Because I think more often than not, we start seeing tokenization. And just having one or two folks in the spotlight for a little while isn’t necessarily making a change, right? It’s more performative than anything.
Definitely. And so, one of the questions we’re exploring is: who are we accountable to, and how? If we have a vision for transformation that includes a world where everyone eats well and is cared for and celebrated, then performance doesn’t cut it. And so what does that require of us as an organization and as a team?
What are some of the things you have started doing as a team to start working on that?
Yeah, thank you. So, an early step in this exploration ––and I’ll say, this is relatively new, just to be real––one of the early steps was to incorporate the exploration of white supremacy cultural characteristics into the facilitation curriculum and have all of our staff members at the time go through that, as well. I think we have more awareness of those considerations in making our programming choices, both in developing the themes and choosing who the storytellers will be.
Over the last year, we had the opportunity to bring several new folks onto the team, and I think both Shizue and Nayantara [Sen, Director of Programs and Cultural Strategy] have more background and experience in explicitly addressing race. Specifically, Nayantara was a trainer at Race Forward for about a decade, and so [she is] bringing that experience into the team and explicitly bringing that into our program designs––into our curriculum and into the work that we want to be doing.
In the cohort I was in, someone had brought up the experience of working with one of their [storytellers] and...brought up if they would be paid to actually tell their story. And that did just make me think about privilege and the different privileges we have. Specifically, who has the privilege of time––to take off of work or to volunteer their time––and not be paid for it? Some of [the storytellers] may, but some of the BIPOC ones may not have that privilege.
Yeah, that is one of the changes that we’ve made, just since last summer. For the tail end of 2020 we created a “gratitude jar” where community members could contribute as a gift to the storyteller, and in reciprocity with the storyteller. And starting with Storyslam 2021 and now going forward, we are offering our storytellers an honorarium.
That’s awesome.
Yeah, it definitely feels like a good shift.
I mean, just for one this is a hard business to be in. And just knowing the time that it takes to prepare stories and meet with people, is asking a lot of people. But just still [knowing] that time is valuable, and time is money. And not everyone has that privilege, you know, to leisurely do things.
Yeah, especially food businesses. There are so many demands.
Are there specific things you would hope to see RFRS, as an organization, consider doing or practices to consider adopting?
One thing that I think would be cool is considering how you actually incorporate other people’s traditions into things. And so thinking about storytellers, what are some of the traditions that they have that can be incorporated into the gatherings? Like I know you do the singing bell*, but thinking about Black culture a lot of times when we gather for something we’ll start off with, like, libations or something like that. So how is there a way to incorporate different aspects of some traditions that we don’t know about or don’t normally do? How are we incorporating those things, not just one thing, into different gatherings and use it as a teaching experience, too?
I love that.
Also, and I know it can be tricky––I know it can’t be a traveling RFRS all the time––but what are those spaces where RFRS actually travels to another spot to create more accessibility for folks? Not just for the audience but for the storytellers, as well. I think that’s exposing the community to different things and new faces, and thinking about privilege too….
“...how do you create more than just that one space and time to celebrate people?” -Stefani Renée Medley
I think back to just creating those intentional spaces so it’s not just a one-off. Like, I hate it...when it comes time for Black History Month [and] folks are scrambling trying to get things together. I think it’s great because I think that you should celebrate Black History Month, but how do you create more than just that one space and time to celebrate people? And, I mean, that’s not even just with Black folks, but with AAPI, [et cetera]… How are we creating things that are celebrating people on a more consistent basis?
Yeah, and specifically countering white supremacy cultural characteristics. A peer colleague in the food space, Yuka at Food Shift, has said something along the lines of, the world we live in, the systems we live in, are designed with racism at the core, and so if you’re just going with the flow, you’re going with the flow of racism. We’re recognizing that there are ways that our organization has played into that and that we need to be more intentional about making different choices.
Black folks aren’t a monolith, and so recognizing that we’re diverse in our own unique ways and being able to show what that diversity looks like is important. Like, we all don’t cook soul food, you know what I mean. And I think folks don’t even understand what soul food is. Bringing in history––bringing in diverse groups of Black folks to talk about food and what they’re doing––is important. Not just...having those conversations in February [for Black history month]. Those need to happen on a consistent basis.
Also, how are you including Black folks in planning spaces?
From February through May of 2021, the Real Food Real Stories team undertook a holistic re-envisioning and strategic overhaul process to evaluate all aspects of the organization.
So not just [including Black folks in] storytelling gatherings as storytellers, but how do you include that community in planning spaces in a meaningful way? Not just in the food space, but in a lot of spaces, [there’s a] lack of checking in with folks and having those conversations like, what do you think would be a good idea? People go off of assumptions and what they think would be a good idea without actually talking with the people that it’s probably going to impact. And I think that’s one of the most important things to [do to] avoid tokenization.
And, you don’t have to use the same person all the time! (laughs) I have seen that a lot––there’s like one or two people that get put out there all the time. And it’s not that they’re not great people, but there [are] just more people out there that don’t get a chance. And so, how can space be created for those obscure folks that nobody knows about but they’re doing amazing things?
Yeah, that reminds me that one of the changes we’re hoping to make is how we identify who to invite to share their story. It’s been something, historically, very staff-driven and we’re trying to create mechanisms for that to be more democratic in a couple different ways.
One is creating ways for people to nominate storytellers and, to your point, asking for those nominations. And also we’ve started offering Storytelling Workshops around the themes that we’ll be sharing our public [Seasonal] Gatherings around. So drawing together small groups of folks to share that specific theme through their stories and using that––the folks who are drawn to that workshop––[as] a self-selection, in a way, to identify potential storytellers for the gatherings. Those are two specific ways, but we’re also exploring other ways we might democratize the storyteller identification and selection process.
I just happened to go on the site not too long ago and I saw there is a [form] to nominate people and I was like, oh, okay, well I guess I’ll be nominating some people.
Yay – it’s working!
“...your invitation to consider traveling our events, to be more accessible to people who haven’t been centered in our programming…has sparked a conversation about accessibility for whom.” - Jovida Ross
There was a period of time a couple of years back that the organization started designing our programs around the idea of a “curious eater,” and it was essentially lifting up the role of the consumer in shaping food. So we’ve questioned over the last year, who are we really in partnership with, in the change that we would like to create? It’s not necessarily a consumer. So, actually, your invitation to consider traveling our events, to be more accessible to people who haven’t been centered in our programming and our programming design––and particularly youth of color in Richmond, specific to the venue you work at––that has sparked a conversation about accessibility for whom. It’s something that’s a live conversation for us.
Stefani picks nectarines and plums from a vendor at the Farmers’ Market.
Photo courtesy of Savor and Sage.
Yeah, like I get it, too. Because I think there’s like––one of the things that I’d thought about when I brought that conversation up, I was thinking about how many people don’t know about RFRS and should know about RFRS. Because I definitely think that what you all are doing is some righteous work, and people should know about it. I just think it needs to be a diverse [group of] people that know about it, right? And I think a lot of times we get kind of stuck in, like, who should have access to certain things? We may not even be doing it in intentional ways, but...you never know if someone is going to be interested in something unless you ask them, or create a space for them to be interested in it. I just think [there] could be some really dope spaces.
I love that in what you just said you named that there’s a learning opportunity for us. Naming it as ‘accessibility,’ there’s a potential pitfall of thinking of it as a one-way exchange, and you just named that it’s not a one-way exchange.
Yeah!
I think from what I see, I think you all are on a good track (laughs) to making some things happen. I feel hopeful about it – sometimes I can be a little skeptical about things naturally –
Fair.
–but I feel hopeful. I just encourage you to keep talking to different folks and asking “am I doing something right?” or “is there something I could change?” I think you all feel open to that, so I think that’s a good quality.
One of the things that I’ve been looking forward to is to hear the whole presentation of what the whole vision is for RFRS. I’ve been looking forward to that, because I think there are going to be some questions that pop up from that.
“...don’t let it be a moment. That’s the main thing. ‘Cause we’re still going to be Black. That’s not going to change.” - Stefani Renée Medley
Just don’t let this be a moment. It’s weird because I can see when I just started getting into the whole ‘food scene’ last year, it was pretty amazing how a couple of folks I know just got this boost––whether it was social media or whatever––from people. And then, slowly, you just see things trickling down or just stopping completely. And it’s like, huh, it’s not trendy anymore. And so, yeah, don’t let it be a moment. That’s the main thing. ‘Cause, we’re still going to be Black (laughs). That’s not going to change.
* The singing bell was replaced with the use of a dinner bell beginning in Spring of 2021.
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